OPEN FORUM for READERS TO POST ENTRIES – DECEMBER 2017

OPEN FORUM for READERS TO POST ENTRIES

DECEMBER 2017

This page entry is a suggestion from one of our readers. It will always be located on the first page of this website.

It has been created to allow readers to post entries on ANY subject. This will widen the number and scope of subjects carried on this website, since they will be selected by you.

As a Contributor …..  Create your entry as a COMMENT to this entry. It could be an article or/and YouTube video. Make a short intro that leads to a link or PDF attachment. PLEASE PUT A HEADLINE ON YOUR ENTRY.

As a Reader  …. please attach your comments to the entry made by the Contributor.

If an entry creates a lot of interest then we may set it up  as a separate entry on this website. Note that Contributors can send in their entries to me with photos etc, for publication as entries to the website. You do not have to use your real name to submit entries.

Thanks for your support. Looking forward to your entries.

Cyril Bryan. Editor.

Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

Comments

  • needybad4u  On November 30, 2017 at 2:50 am

    Hello Cyril,

    I am ‘testing’ this OPEN FORUM for READERS TO POST ENTRIES . I posted a Book Review in the COMMENT box, but I have a feeling this isn’t the right place. If so, please let me know if I did follow the guidelines. Certainly, a Word Document with a picture will not be appropriate here.

    Please advise.

    Thanks.

    Leonard

    ________________________________

    • guyaneseonline  On November 30, 2017 at 9:02 am

      Hello Leonard:

      I would suggest to you and anyone posting articles etc to make them as short as possible. Give links and PDF files for long articles.
      Best to say what your links outline in a couple of sentences so that readers can decide to open them,

      Thanks for your input.

  • Deen  On November 30, 2017 at 7:31 am

    Super idea!
    Also, contributers should be allowed to edit their contributions and comments for correction after they are posted.

  • guyaneseonline  On November 30, 2017 at 8:50 am

    Comment from Ron Saywack…

    Many thanks to the great visionary and pioneer, Cyril Bryan, for taking the initiative to create this new Open Forum.

    My take:

    The Open Thread should be used to address or debate any issue of concern you may have that may be of interest to most, if not all. As such, it can be a subject matter dealing with science, astronomy and space travel, the Big Bang theory, life teeming elsewhere in the Universe, even within the Milky way galaxy, our home galaxy, religion, history, politics, sports, education, medicine, law, cooking, writing, the movies, childhood memories, the nuclear arms race, Guyana and the Caribbean, the meaning of Christmas, the Electoral College, the Second Amendment, travel, Hollywood, natural disasters, ghost stories, etc.

    On the other hand, the forum should not be used to promote a for-profit business or book, although you may recommend a good one. A book I’d recommend for perusal is Cosmos by the legendary Carl Sagan, an epic read –read it four times over the years.

    As we embark on this new journey together, I trust that all comments are made civilly and with mutual respect for one another. Let’s strive to always uphold a high standard of discourse without intentional or malicious personal attacks.

    I trust that the Open Forum will be fun for all as we set sail together into the open seas.

    Cheers,

  • Rosaliene Bacchus  On November 30, 2017 at 1:11 pm

    Excellent initiative, Cyril 🙂

  • Albert  On November 30, 2017 at 2:05 pm

    Ideas that come to mind in no particular order.
    As Guyanese American we should place emphasis on sharing ideas as to how to succeed in America. Write about what many Guyanese and others we know have done to move ahead. Contribute ideas on how we could help those in need in Guyana. Places in America to live as an alternative to Guyana. Write on experiences in America which has help us to improve our lives, and may help others.
    In general ideas about making our lives better not about sorrowful sad matters of the past.

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On November 30, 2017 at 11:34 pm

    Great innovation, Cyril. On occasion one comes across items which one finds interesting and hopefully others will too.
    But, if I understand the concept, will entries appear sequentially as comments, right here? How would one know if an interesting topic is profiled without going thru all comments?
    Also, could you put a page/word limit on item to be posted.

    Looking fwd to your clarification.

    Veda

    • guyaneseonline  On December 1, 2017 at 12:59 am

      Veda: I have revised the entry. see above
      Due to the design of the Blog program, I feel that this is the best way to present the information. One does have to go down the list to seethe latest comments on the articles that are published.
      The latest new entries will always be at the bottom.

      This is a work in progress and we will see how it works out and change it as we go along.
      he main process is to have readers contributing content to this blog. Some are already doing so with their commentaries and opinion pieces.

      I said in the revised entry that

      “If an entry creates a lot of interest then we may set it up  as a separate entry on this website. Note that Contributors can send in their entries to me with photos etc, for publication as entries to the website. You do not have to use your real name to submit entries.”

      Thanks for your support. Looking forward to your entries.

      Cyril Bryan. Editor.

  • kamtanblog  On December 1, 2017 at 2:47 am

    What is free trade ?

    1. Freedom to trade
    2. Freedom of trade
    3. Free trade

    EU has “experimented” with free
    movement of goods successfully
    may add.
    USA has had free trade post WW2.
    Asia Africa Middle East and Latin America has not really enjoyed free
    trade.
    EU has a “protectionist” policy on
    trade with ROW (rest of world)
    USA has now decided to also
    adopt similar policy on trade with
    ROW.
    We will soon see “trade blocks”
    similar to BRICS (Brazil Russia India China and South Africa) expanding its
    membership/influence via its newly
    created NDB (new development bank)
    as the IMF/WB money lender/ launderer..

    The above is entirely my opinion
    which can change in time.
    Am sure others will “beg to differ”
    so hope they respond with reason/reasons.

    Fast forward
    Will we now have free trade worldwide
    similar to EU USA ?
    Free movement of goods services and peoples endorsed by new WTO rules.
    Free of taxes/tariffs/visas…as per shengen (free movement of citizens)
    The final ambition/solution ?

    Hope so !
    Forever the optimist…dreamer
    but it’s free and dreams can come true
    but only if realistic.

    Lord Kamtan UKplc

  • Ron Saywack  On December 4, 2017 at 12:33 pm

    Jason Holder must be replaced as captain of the West Indies cricket team, the sooner the better, for a number of reasons:

    1) He is not skilled enough to play at the international level. He has been a consistent failure at that level. In the recently concluded Wellington Test, he was out first ball in the first innings and managed a paltry 7 in the second. He is listed as an all-rounder, but not a good one at that. The fact that he represents West Indies is a testament as to how far West Indies cricket has fallen.

    In the recent Brisbane Test, Australia were in a precarious position in their first innings but the skipper Steve Smith dug them out of a deep hole to win comfortably in the end. Jason Holder could not replicate that feat in a similar situation in New Zealand. The West Indies went down to an embarrassing innings defeat, instead.

    2) A captain must be a leader to whom the players look up for inspiration and guidance. Jason Holder is not that leader.

    He was appointed West Indies captain by Clive Lloyd at age 23 in 2014. But has categorically failed to live up to Mr. Lloyd’s expectations. Holder is not a fraction of a leader Lloyd was. That is one of the biggest cricketing blunders the great Guyanese/West Indian has made.

    Even though West have shown promises in recent Test serious, they have not been able to build on it and much of that failure is attributable to poor captaincy.

    It’s time for the selectors to pull the trigger and remove Holder from the team.

  • Ron Saywack  On December 4, 2017 at 3:13 pm

    The true meaning of Xmas

    It may surprise some of you that December 25 is not about the birth of Christ. That is a myth. Rather, it is the culmination of Saturnalia. Saturnalia was a week-long, pre-Christian carnival celebrated in Rome from 17-25 December. It was a most depraved festival. It was associated with the winter solstice and the return of longer days, warmer temperatures and spring.

    In Roman mythology, Saturn was the god of agriculture. That is for whom a planet was named as well as a day of the week, Saturday. The birth of Christ is unknown.

    There have been several ‘educated’ guesses as to when he was born, but no concrete evidence. For example, an ancient North African document, around 243 C.E., The DePascha Computus, placed the birth at 28 March. Clement, a bishop of Alexandria, thought Jesus was born on 18 November. Biblical scholar, Fitzmyer, guesses the date to be September 11, 3 B.C.E. As you can see, they are all over the map.

    Ab Urbe Condita (AUC), the year Rome was founded, AD 1, is also not the birth of Christ.

    During Saturnalia, Roman courts were closed and Roman laws were suspended. You could commit the most heinous crimes such as rape, murder or property with impunity. It was a week of total lawlessness.

    The Saturnalia began when Roman authorities would capture an unfortunate man or woman as their ‘unwelcomed’ guest for the entire week. They would overfeed that person and sexually abuse him or her. The celebrants would march down the street nude, intoxicated, singing and indulging in sexual orgies, knocking door to door.

    At the culmination of Saturnalia, that unfortunate man or woman would be brutally murdered in the belief that they were driving out the forces of darkness, short nights, cold, death and starvation, etc. and that the crops will return.

    The Roman Catholic Church (RCC), was founded in Rome in 313 by Constantine I, following the Battle of the Milvian Bridge the previous year (312) in which he (Constantine) managed to assassinate Maxentius, his brother-in-law and co-emperor. At the time, the Rome Empire was governed by a Tetrarchy, that is, two co-emperors ruling the eastern and two co-emperors ruling the western part of a large geographical landmass.

    Constantine attributed his victory to the Christian god through a dream.

    As the early Church grew, it wanted to be inclusive because the more ‘bums’ in the pews, the more for the collection basket. It was under these premises that the pagans were accepted, that they would continue to celebrate Saturnalia like they always had. The early Church leaders fibbed to the pagans by attaching 25 December as the birth date of Christ.

    The Xmas Trees

    The Asheira (pagan) cult loved and adored the forest. They would bring trees into their homes and decorated them. That is where the Xmas tree originated from.

    The origin of the other aspects of Xmas will follow soon.

  • Ron Saywack  On December 5, 2017 at 7:14 am

    A few tidying notes regarding the above posting:

    1) Pursuant to the Edict of Milan (Mediolanum its ancient name), Romans could practice Christianity for the first time without fear of death. The only legal religion of that time was the Roman religion;

    2) Maxentius drowned in the river below the Milvian Bridge because he could not swim;

    3) The following paragraph should read as follows (long nights not short nights):

    At the culmination of Saturnalia, that unfortunate man or woman (perceived to be an enemy of the Romans) would be brutally murdered in the belief that they were driving out the forces of darkness, long winter nights, frigid temperatures, death, and starvation, etc. and that the crops will return;

    4) The Xmas Tree, not ‘The Xmas Trees’.

    NB: An edict function is badly needed for this purpose.

  • Gigi  On December 5, 2017 at 7:37 pm

    Fantastic. Cyril Bryan, many thanks for this awesome site! According to my kids, my favorite phrase is ‘sign of the times.” Well, this is indeed a sign of the times. Never in my wildest dreams would I ever have envisioned such a site.

    Anyway, a while back, you had an entry about the Berbice chair. I remember posting a comment about my own experience growing up with a Berbice chair in the home. Because of that article, I now have two Berbice chairs. From my extensive research, I found out that the Berbice chair is of Indian heritage and is also known as a plantation chair, birthing chair, or fornication chair and is originally made with cane/reed backing. I did purchase one chair in excellent condition but the other had structural damage to the cane/reed backing which made it possible for me to recover with upholstery fabric – just like my mom did with hers. If it wasn’t for that article, I would not have entertained the thought of wanting a Berbice chair(s) and my subsequent search to find one. Having acquired this Guyanese staple, I am still in the process of finding a functional treadle Singer sewing machine like the one my mom owned. She sewed my wedding dress on hers. My kids would like to have one but they insist that it MUST to be functional – just like grandma’s. A tall order, but it would be nice to have just so I can see my mom in them and for them to relate. My mom died way before they were born and all they have are stories and pictures to go by.

  • Ron Saywack  On December 6, 2017 at 2:07 pm

    The Origin of Santa Claus

    Truth be known, Santa Claus was a real person, a kindly black gentleman from Anatolia, today, the westernmost protrusion of Asia (better known as Asia Minor). He spoke Arabic and Kurdish. He was born in Patara, Greece, now southern Turkey, in 370 C.E. and died on 6 December 345. He was born into enormous wealth. But, unfortunately, both his parents died of a terrible epidemic when he was a boy. Left orphaned, he was raised by an uncle.

    After he grew up, he had little appetite for wealth and sought to give it away to the needy, including sailors. The dowry system, still extant in some parts of the world, was prevalent in his day. If you were a parent with daughters and could not afford the dowry, your poor daughters would be sold off into slavery or prostitution.

    The father next door to Santa had three daughters. He was dirt poor and could not afford the dowry which meant his daughters awaited a most unfortunate fate. St. Nicholas would not let it happen, though. One day he walked past the house and tossed a gold nugget through an open window and it fell, fortuitously, into a stocking hung up to dry, in the middle of the house, by the eldest child.

    When she went to pick it up, it felt heavy. So she summoned her dad to investigate. The dad came and confirmed that it was real gold. They were all happy and rejoiced at this miracle. Now, the dad could afford the dowry and the eldest daughter was saved a life of misery as she would celebrate a big, happy wedding day.

    The next day, St. Nick walked past the house and threw another gold nugget through the open window and so the second daughter was saved. On the third day, he repeated his kindness and thus all three daughters were rescued and marred off to live happily ever after. Santa’s generosity and philanthropy extended to the seaside, as well, where he would hand out priceless nuggets to the sailors. He became a folk hero and legend among his many beneficiaries.

    St. Nicholas was also one of the elder bishops of the early Church who met to convene the Council of Nicaea in 325 to write the New Testament, in the entire month of June. Moreover, Saint Nick became the Bishop of Myra, a seaside resort town in southern Turkey.

    Sailors would celebrate his death anniversary on 6 December by giving gifts to one another. In 1087, they (sailors) removed his bones from his gravesite and reburied them at a shrine in Bari, Italy. Later, the Roman Catholic Church blended Santa’s death-date anniversary with the culmination of Saturnalia (on 25 December) to give it a Christian meaning.
    —————————————————————————————

    It should be noted that during the Saturnalia, in the pre-Christian era, Roman emperors forced their most despised citizens to bring them gifts. Later, the practice was extended to the general populace.

    The other interesting aspects of the Santa story to follow shortly.

  • Ron Saywack  On December 7, 2017 at 1:50 pm

    Santa’s arrival in Europe

    Many European cultures had a pantheon of gods. For example, the king of the gods of the Celtic and Germanic pagans was Woden who sported a long, white beard and who is said to have ridden a horse through the skies once a year each autumn.

    When St. Nicholas merged with Woden, he grew a beard, abandoned his Mid-Eastern appearance, wore heavy winter attire, mounted a flying horse and flew through the heavens in December.

    The Roman Catholic Church saw a grand opportunity to expand its base as it desperately wanted more contributors to the basket at Sunday mass. And thus the Church adopted the Nicholas cult and began teaching that St. Nick distributed gifts on the eve of 25 December, instead of 6 December.

    The novelist, Washington Irving, wrote a satire on Dutch culture, Knickerbocker History, published in 1809. The satire often refers to the white-bearded, horse-flying Saint Nicholas, using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.

    Dr. Clement Moore read the novel, liked it a lot and in 1822 wrote the (now-famous) poem based on the Santa Claus character: “Twas the night before Christmas when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse, stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…”

     The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 to 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa Claus for a weekly magazine.

    Before Thomas Nast, Saint Nicholas had been portrayed as everything from a stern-looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. It was Nast who gave Santa his home at the North Pole, a workshop filled with elves, and the list of all the good and bad children of the world.

    All that Santa was missing was his red outfit.

    In 1931, the Coca-Cola Corporation hired the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom fashioned his Santa after his good friend Lou Prentice for his cheerful, chubby cheeks. 

    The Coca-Cola Corporation specified that Santa’s suit be a bright, Coca-Cola red.  And so the modern Santa Claus was born … ho-ho-ho!
     

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On December 7, 2017 at 2:14 pm

    Christmas’ Origins.

    Ron: Here are earlier reasons for Xmas on December 25.

    When was Christmas first celebrated? In an old list of Roman bishops, compiled in A. D. 354 these words appear for A.D. 336: “25 Dec.: natus Christus in Betleem Judeae.” December 25th, Christ born in Bethlehem, Judea. This day, December 25, 336, is the first recorded celebration of Christmas.
    No one knows for sure on what day Christ was born. Dionysus Exiguus, a sixth century monk, who was the first to date all of history from December 25th, the year of our Lord 1.

    How did Christmas come to be celebrated on December 25th? Cultures around the Mediterranean and across Europe observed feasts on or around December 25th, marking the winter solstice. The Jews had a festival of lights. Germans had a yule festival. Celtic legends connected the solstice with Balder, the Scandinavian sun god who was struck down by a mistletoe arrow. At the pagan festival of Saturnalia, Romans feasted and gave gifts to the poor. Drinking was closely connected with these pagan feasts. At some point, a Christian bishop may have adopted the day to keep his people from indulging in the old pagan festival.

    https://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/301-600/the-1st-recorded-celebration-of-christmas-11629658.html

    But, there is an even more central character, a more immediate link to Xmas Day, Dec 25. This has to do with the SUN. It is also the reason why the Christian Sabbath is SUNday. This adoration/obeisance of the Sun, in fact its worship, rubbed off unto Jesus Christ. The late theologian, and retired Prof of New Testament and Greek at University of Toronto, writes in The Pagan Christ that a mosaic in the Vatican, dated to the 3rd /4th C shows “the vine of the Greek sun god, Dionysus, [is] reinterpreted as the vine of Jesus Christ and [surrounds] a large image of Christ, as the sun god …lietrally the “[SUN] of righteousness” As well, “The Christian Sabbath, Sunday, is a direct relic of this solar phenomenon. The pagan name for it was dies solis (the day of the sun)”. And,up to the 6th C. “ ‘Our Lord the Sun’ was used by Christians… [and was changed in the Church’s liturgy] to ‘Our Lord, the God’ ”. Harpur, further points out that Constantine, even after his supposed vision in 313 AD continued to have his coins bear the inscription sol deus invictus (unconquerable sun) for many years, (not to mention several murders of “his wife, Fausta – boiled her alive and suffocated her in her bath – sons, and several others”; And that Pope Leo (440-461) witnessed the “custom of many Christians to stand of the front step of St. Peter’s in Rome “and pay homage to the sun by obeisance and prayers”.

    The character from whom it was all copied was the pagan SUN god, Mithras. And, December 25 in the Julian calendar was considered the day of Winter solstice, the day when the Sun begins its journey from the Tropic of Capricorn, back to the Tropics. – hence ‘Birth of the Sun’.

    Thus, we have Xmas on Dec 25, and must thank the pre Zoroastrian, polytheistic religion, Mithraism.
    I will have more to say on this. In the meantime look up here and Wikipedia.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mithraism

    Veda Nath Mohabir

  • Ron Saywack  On December 7, 2017 at 4:11 pm

    Zeitgeist: This is a powerful, two-hour long documentary. Please view the first 40 minutes of it, or its full duration if you have the time.

    It sheds light on some of the lies we have been told by the corrupt institutions of our time. You may have to view it a few times in case you miss something or do not completely understand any part of it.

  • Ron Saywack  On December 7, 2017 at 4:16 pm

    Please watch Part 1 first. You may view the above Part 2 afterward. It was inadvertently posted.

  • Ron Saywack  On December 7, 2017 at 4:27 pm

    There was a technical problem it which Part 2 was inadvertently posted twice.

    Part 1 is what I meant to post. Hopefully, you can find it here:

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On December 8, 2017 at 12:13 am

    Part II
    Christmas Before Christ – The Surprising Truth!
    Posted on Dec 4, 2009 by Jerold Aust, United Church of God Pastor

    ‘Christmas began long before the birth of Jesus Christ. Alexander Hislop’s book The Two Babylons explores many historical sources showing that the holiday precedes Christ by at least 2,000 years, as earlier mentioned (1957, pp. 97-98).
    ‘A nativity celebration for pagan gods was observed near the winter solstice in both Syria and Egypt. Later, some 400 years before Christ, the Mithraic religion, centering on the Persian sun god Mithras, provided the foundation for the Christmas celebration. Mithraism became very popular in the Roman Empire, and many elements of its worship survive today in Roman Catholicism.
    ‘The noted British anthropologist, historian and scholar Sir James Frazer, knighted for his contributions to our understanding of ancient religions, wrote in his book The Golden Bough:
    “There can be no doubt that the Mithraic religion proved a formidable rival to Christianity, combining as it did a solemn ritual with aspirations after moral purity and a hope of immortality. Indeed the issue of the conflict between the two faiths appears for a time to have hung in the balance. An instructive relic of the long struggle is preserved in our festival of Christmas, which the Church seems to have borrowed directly from its heathen rival .
    “In the Julian calendar the twenty-fifth of December was reckoned the winter solstice, and it was regarded as the Nativity [birthday] of the Sun, because the day begins to lengthen and the power of the sun to increase from that turning-point of the year….”
    “The Egyptians even represented the new-born sun by the image of an infant which on his birthday, the winter solstice, they brought forth and exhibited to his worshippers….”
    https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/christmas-before-christ-the-surprising-truth

    Finally, as Wikipedia and Brittanica mention, Mithras is linked to the Hindu-Vedic Mitra. Here is hymn I(156)(1) in the Rig Veda:
    “1. FAR-SHINING, widely famed, going thy wonted way, fed with the oil, be helpful, Mitra-like, to us.”

    Notice the “FAR-SHINING” which can only refer to the Sun, to whom the devotees are praying to “be helpful, Mitra-like, to us”. As Wikipedia also says, Mitra = friend, hence the beneficient Sun God, later adopted by Christianity in the Christ.

    VedaNM.

  • Albert  On December 9, 2017 at 4:39 pm

    Life is complex. If a man has spent almost his/her entire life with a certain deep-seated belief it could almost be impossible to get him to accept his beliefs are false. To do this is to tell him he has wasted a lifetime of emotional energy entertaining false ideas.
    But if one should succeed in proving, for instance, that the idea of Christ and Christmas is false then what are the benefits to a person who has been happy believing in his myths.

    • Joe  On December 11, 2017 at 6:51 am

      You have fallen into the same trap as everyone else here, quoting what other people have written about and you have swallowed it hook line and sinker, and then started quoting it as if you know that it is a fact. Especially quoting Sir James Frazer as if Sir makes it a fact. Don’t you know that the English are the biggest liars the world has ever known. The “Sir” do not make them honest, the “sir” was given to them, by, yes another English person to make it seem that England and the English are important, but they are not.

      • Albert  On December 11, 2017 at 11:39 am

        Ron I think this reply by Joe is meant for you.

    • Ron Saywack  On December 11, 2017 at 7:30 am

      Albert ponders: “But if one should succeed in proving, for instance, that the idea of Christ and Christmas is false then what are the benefits to a person who has been happy believing in his myths (?).”

      It is a rather interesting moral dilemma, Albert.

      Eckhart Tolle states:

      “Dogmas are collective conceptual prisons. And the strange thing is that people love their prison cells because they give them a sense of security and a false sense of ‘I know.’ ”

      As the old saying goes: ‘Let sleeping dogs lie.’… may be one way to deal with such dilemmas.

    • Ron Saywack  On December 11, 2017 at 1:24 pm

      Albert: I don’t see how that odd comment is directed at me since I have not quoted James Frazer.

      However, if any person wants to engage in an honest, academic debate on any subject matter, they are most welcome to present their argument. I will always defend mine.

  • Ron Saywack  On December 10, 2017 at 4:30 pm

    History is replete with numerous cultures worshiping sun gods, dating back more than 10,000 years as seen from carvings and writings.

    All the sun gods have the exact same mythological structure. They were each born of a virgin mother on December 25, with a bright star prominent in the east (Sirius, along with three other bright stars in Orion’s Belt, known as the three kings), performed miracles, died for three days and then resurrected.

    From a Northern Hemisphere perspective, from the summer solstice to the winter solstice, the sun, having gradually diminished each day for 6 months, stops going south and for three days (Dec. 22, 23 and 24) rises and sets in the same spot, perceivably, not moving south or north. Then on 25 December, a curious thing occurs, the sun rises 1 degree on the horizon on its perpetual 6-month odyssey to the next summer solstice. Hence the birth, the death, and the resurrection.

    Here are 5 notable solar messiahs:

    1) Horus the sun god of Egypt, predating Christianity by 3,000 years. Horus’ ‘virgin’ mother was Isis;

    2) Attis of Phrygia, 1,200 BC. His virgin mother was Nana;

    3) Krishna of India, 900 BC. His virgin mother was Devaki;

    4) Dionysus of Greece, 500 BC. His virgin mother was Samele.

    5) Mithra of Persia, 1,200 BC. His virgin mother was Anahita.

    Christ is the equivalent of the Egyptian sun god Horus — both mythological solar messiahs. When you put Christianity alongside the Egyptian religion, it is a carbon copy.

    The story of a man’s literal resurrection from the grave is a myth. In fact, it is a brazen lie. There were numerous noted historians who lived in the Mediterranean around the time of Christ and shortly afterward. And how many of them recorded his biography? Not even one. What does that tell you?

    You would assume that if the resurrection was true and witnessed by many, they would have written about it, right? Nada! Flavius Josephus wrote that Jesus was seen among the living three days after his death. That story has been unequivocally and thoroughly discounted over the centuries. But, sadly, it continues to be taught as true.

    The bottom line is, Christianity is a lie, a total fraud, just like the other religions!

    The film Zeitgeist academically and brilliantly and rips apart the lie.

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On December 11, 2017 at 2:13 pm

    Ron: re. 3) Krishna of India, 900 BC. His virgin mother was Devaki;

    Krishna was NOT a Sun god. Krishna was an avatar of Vishnu (the protector Divinity of the Hindu Trinity, – preceded by the creator Brahma and followed by Shiva – the dissolver). Neither was his mother a virgin when she gave birth to him. She already had seven sons who were all killed at birth by demoniac Brother Kamsa. (Google it).

    I saw part of the movie Zeitgeist, while there are some reasonable arguments, I realize that the producer was trying hard to lump all religions together. Hinduism stands out, ahead, as the likes of Carl Sagan and Aldous Huxley pointed out (I posted the links on the other thread on ‘Harassment’).

    Scholars, like Jurist, Louis Jacolliot (The Bible in India, written in 1868) show clearly that all other major religions copied Hinduism on: Adam and Eve (Adima & Heva), Noah, Law Giver, Manu (at least the producer noted this where Menes, Minos and Moses plagiarized the Indian Manu) and Christ from Christna/Krishna.

    So, in dating of Christna/Krishna at 900 BC the producer is following the silly and much debunked Eurocentric Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) which has no basis in fact – archaeology, philoiogy, and most of all, genetics. In fact, genetic studies support an ‘Out of India’ hypothesis, rather than the reverse AIT.

    Krishna died 5,000+ years ago, according to Indian/Hindu texts. Tom Harpur recognized this dating in his 2005 Toronto Star article (I have the hard copy) as editor of the religion page, when he wrote that much of what Jesus supposedly taught was already taught by ‘Krishna, 3000 years earlier (ie., 5,000 years ago).

    Still have doubts? Have a look at this very revealing/enlightening video by Graham Hancock, an underwater researcher of lost civilizations. The legendary city of Dwarka, where Krishna ruled, is now under water and is dated to about 9,000 BC. I first read most of one of his books, Underworld, The Mysterious Origins of Civilization, 12 years ago.

    Veda

    • Ron Saywack  On December 11, 2017 at 3:51 pm

      Thank you, Veda, for your insightful and knowledgeable contribution to this fascinating discussion.

      Our collective understanding of the distant past, and of lost civilizations, is incomplete, and a veritable work in progress. Needless to say, there is still much, much more to learn.

      That said, it is important, and very necessary, that we broach these matters with an open mind as we collectively strive to unravel the deepest mysteries of the past to paint a clearer picture for the present and for posterity.

      Cheers, Ron.

  • Ron Saywack  On December 12, 2017 at 8:12 am

    The following explains why, after multiple births, the mothers of sun gods, retain their virgin status:

    Was Krishna Born of a Virgin? Yes, according to myth.

    by Acharya S/D.M. Murdock

    Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha, and Christ:

    “The goddesses have stories to tell. One such story—far too long ignored—is that, in their original, unadulterated form, they were parthenogenetic. The word parthenogenesis comes from the Greek parthenos, ‘virgin’ more or less, and gignesthai, ‘to be born.’

    It means, essentially, to be born of a virgin—that is, without the participation of a male. For a goddess to be ‘parthenogenetic’ thus means that she stands as a primordial creatrix, who requires no male partner to produce the cosmos, earth, life, matter and even other gods out of her own essence.

    Plentiful evidence shows that in their earliest cults, before they were subsumed under patriarchal pantheons as the wives, sisters and daughters of male gods, various female deities of the ancient Mediterranean world were indeed considered self-generating, virgin creatrixes.”

    Dr. Marguerite Rigoglioso, Virgin Mother Goddesses of Antiquity:

    “Let our Christian readers bear in mind that the worship of the virgin and her child was common in the East, ages before the generally received account of Christ’s appearance in the flesh.”

    Existence of Christ Disproved

    “Crishna was born of a chaste virgin, called Devaki, who, on account of her purity, was selected to become the ‘mother of God.'”

    Doane, Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions

    A recurring theme in ancient religion revolves around the manner of the sun god’s birth, as well as the chastity of his mother. In a number of instances the sun god is perceived as being born of the inviolable dawn, the virgin moon or earth, or the constellation of Virgo. The virgin status of the mothers of pre-Christian gods and godmen has been asserted for centuries by numerous scholars of mythology and ancient religion.

    Nevertheless, because of the motif’s similarity to a major Christian tenet, apologists attempt to debunk it by simply stating that these Pagan mothers were not virgins, for a variety of reasons, including their marital status, number of children and the manner of impregnation.

    Regardless, the virgin status of the ancient goddesses or mothers of gods remains, despite their manner of impregnation, because the fathers, like that of Jesus, are gods themselves, as opposed to mortals who physically penetrate the mothers.”

    NB: Since this stuff is all mythical, it should not be confused with reality. It is merely allegorical, not factual. Humans have invented tens of thousands of gods and goddesses in recorded history, curiously originating from the figment of a fertile imagination.

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On December 12, 2017 at 11:01 pm

    Argument #1.

    “It means, essentially, to be born of a virgin—that is, without the participation of a male. For a goddess to be ‘parthenogenetic’ thus means that she stands as a primordial creatrix, who requires no male partner to produce the cosmos, earth, life, matter and even other gods out of her own essence.”

    Counter:
    In Hindiusm, Devaki, Krishna’s mother was/is never represented as a “primordial creatrix” otherwise she would have been worshipped as such as, say, Shakti or Durga. So, it is false reasoning to represent her that way. Secondly, Krishna IS THE GODHEAD. He is INDEPENDENT and chooses time and place (and similarly which righteous womb to be born in). Here is what he said to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita:

    ““Arjuna, whenever righteousness is on the decline, unrighteousness is in the ascendant, then I am reincarnated.
    For the protection of the virtuous, for the extirpation of the evil-doers, and for establishing Dharma [righteousness] on a firm footing, I am born from age to age.”
    – Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 4: 7-8
    https://kairoscenter.org/reading-on-justice-from-the-bhagavad-gita/

    Argument #2
    ““Crishna was born of a chaste virgin, called Devaki, who, on account of her purity, was selected to become the ‘mother of God.’”

    Counter:
    Devaki was not a “chaste virgin” but a mother of 7 previous children. Nevertheless, the Godhead, chose her as a ‘worthy womb’ to reincarnate in. In fact, in the Hindu Adam and Eve (ADIMA and HEVA) the Godhead promised Heva (as she was the restrained and obedient one) that one of her female progenies will give birth to the incarnated Godhead. It was NOT promised that the chosen female would be a “primordial creatrix”.

    In the Mahabharata, the five Pandava brothers, including Arjuna, were ‘Sons of Gods’ – parthenogenically – (which is why Sharon Westmaas named her book “Sons of Gods – The Mahabharata Retold”). Yet, none of the brothers was a SUN god.
    And, again, in the Mahabharata, even when Surya, the Sun god, earlier parthenogenically, fathered Karna, with said virginal mother, Pritha, of the Pandavas, Karna was NOT deemed a SUN god.

    So, nowhere in Hinduism, is anyone deemed a Sun god as the later religions’ founders are classified.

    Finally, out of all of this, and this will surprise the reader, it is my view that the word parthenogenesis is partly derived from another name for Arjuna viz., Partha. Since he was parthenogenically conceived, it stands to reason that my argument is reasonable.

    VedaNM.

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On December 12, 2017 at 11:16 pm

    When I say “Surya, the Sun god”, Surya is not to be mixed in with the other ‘Sun gods’ which are the subject of this discussion. In Hinduism, many natural forces are called ‘gods’, such as Agni, god of fire or Vayu, wind god, etc…Effectively, any force which has a beneficent effect on the individual or society is deemed a ‘god’ as opposed to the Godhead.

    VedaNM.

  • Ron Saywack  On December 13, 2017 at 1:55 pm

    Many great scholars of mythology and ancient religion conclude that Krishna was a sun god, among many sun gods permeating the ancient world. But our learned friend Veda strongly disagrees. Well, that is fair, everyone is entitled to disagree with everyone else. That is one of the hallmarks of democracy.

    In my view, it is rather silly to fervently defend a myth. After all, a myth is a myth and an allegory is an allegory. A myth, though widely believed to be true, is false. A myth is not reality!

    The many sun gods permeating the ancient world were simply the creations of the human imagination. Moreover, history is replete with cultures plagiarizing the ones preceding them. For example, Christianity is a direct plagiarization of an ancient Egyptian mythological religion led by Horus. The fact is, no god or prophet has ever visited the Earth, even though billions around the world are continually being told to think otherwise.

    Krisha (along with his many ‘predecessors’) is a mythical figure. And myth has it that he led a rather adventurous life, having taken 16,108 wives (enough to fill an NHL arena), fathering 180,000 sons (but no daughters) and lifted a mountain. Really?

    If anyone believes this tall tale to be true, I’d question their sanity. Unless circumstances dictate otherwise, this draws to a conclusion my contribution to this rather fascinating and intriguing subject matter. Now, it is time to turn the page over to the next.

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On December 14, 2017 at 9:23 am

    Ron:
    If, your “Many great scholars of mythology and ancient religion conclude that Krishna was a sun god, among many sun gods permeating the ancient world…” are the ones above, I have already shown in two cases they are unreliable.

    I will give a more expansive response to your latest posting but in the meantime I’d like you to

    1. List a few names of his “predecessors” when you say:

    “Krisha (along with his many ‘predecessors’) is a mythical figure.

    And,
    2. pl give the link/documentary support for:

    ‘And myth has it that he led a rather adventurous life,”having taken 16,108 wives (enough to fill an NHL arena), fathering 180,000 sons (but no daughters) ”

    Cheers, Veda

  • needybad4u  On January 16, 2018 at 2:56 am

    Racism
    (for MLK)
    By Leonard Dabydeen

    Deep in the colour of my skin, I live
    Heart to heart and rumble for peace within;
    I traverse this world for freedom, but give
    Not my pride for prejudice or chagrin.

    I walk not alone, but strive in footsteps
    Where the journey is long, but dream is strong;
    Where civil rights are mine, with no regrets
    That civil liberty is never wrong.

    Non-violence is my definitive creed,
    Through Gandhian spirit I strive and breathe;
    For you and I are equal without plead
    Where discrimination is full of seethe.

    Assassination leaves my world a cloud,
    Racism cannot be dressed in any shroud.

  • needybad4u  On January 16, 2018 at 3:09 am

    Shithole in the Act

    (An Experimental satirical Sonnet in iambic pentameter, written in Caribbean-style local (creole) English and standard English – based on the de facto current political events in America.)

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/huppke/ct-met-trump-shitholes-huppke-20180111-story.html

    What this President say ‘bout yuh country

    That it’s a shithole and yuh come from dat,

    Is but a racist gaffe for yuh and me;

    And this is how he thinks, no matter what.

    But yuh know chutney sang say, ‘Mudda Count’;

    He don’t know what he say, ‘cause he lying

    Even when he twitter media account,

    And mix-up dis Russian interferin’.

    He don’t like blacks, Muslims, and Mexicans,

    He hate them like yuh never seen before;

    And he wants to deport all the Haitians,

    And build wall to keep coloureds out the door.

    That his time is short, a matter of fact;

    He is a shithole, something in the act.

    ~Leonard Dabydeen

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On January 19, 2018 at 2:07 pm

    “UNCONVENTIONAL” HEALING ESPOUSED by Dr. HEDGE.

    He says THE BODY HEALS ITSELF – BASED ON “COUNSCIOUNESS” LINKED TO “UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS” via the individual mind.

    ‘TREATMENT MUST BE HOLISTIC’ not TARGETTED. He feels drugs do more harm to various parts of the body while supposedly ‘curing’ the initial problem.

    Dr. Hedge (pronounced ‘Hed-ge”) mentions a concept called “PURNA” means variously: Infinity, Reality, Completeness, Perfection, Fullness, Wholeness…”

    Here is a verse talking about the paradoxical PURNA.
    http://swamij.com/upanishad-isha-purna.htm

    Now that you have some familiarity with this intriguing concept here is Dr. Hedge’s talk:

    If you find this interesting he has several other videos in the right margin.

    Veda Nath Mohabir

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On January 19, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    My boo boo. His name is Hegde pronounced ‘Heg-de’.
    VNM

  • Ron Saywack  On February 10, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    Britain’s evil and deceptive extension of the Slave Trade via the Sub-Continent and its vicious, shameful abuse of the hapless ‘Coolies’ dispersed to all parts of its Empire, starting in British Guiana in 1938:

    A regretable period in history that shall forever live in infamy.

  • Ron Saywack  On February 10, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    Correction: The above should read1838 instead of 1938.

  • Veda Nath Mohabir  On February 11, 2018 at 4:42 pm

    Good to reprise again. I am including extracts in book I am working on. In the foll take, is the author talking about the same history, conditions, situations and people?

    https://guyaneseonline.wordpress.com/2014/04/11/32007/#more-32007

    VedaNM.

  • Ron Saywack  On February 27, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    A trip down memory lane with the legendary Mighty Sparrow:

    Inarguably, the greatest West Indian Calypso Virtuoso the world has ever known.

  • Ron Saywack  On February 28, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    It is uplifting to see Guyanese having a bit of fun in Georgetown:

    Scenes from Mashramani 2018 videotaped by Raphael.

  • Ron Saywack  On March 11, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    Exploring Guyana’s amazing interior – stunning, pristine places most have never been to and likely may never get to see up close and personal:

    Charles Montier embarks on a courageous journey up the mighty Potaro River amidst unspoiled natural beauty everywhere. Enjoy!

  • Ron Saywack  On March 15, 2018 at 7:30 am

    The Color Barrier in America will one day disintegrate:

    And Whites will have become a numerical minority. No racist will be strong enough to this train. Is that a good or bad thing? I say it is a damn good thing. It will put the smug, arrogant bigots and haters to their place. Below, the brilliant Taharee Jackson expands:

    ———————————————————————————————-
    Prof. Taharee A. Jackson “Who’s Afraid of the Browning of America?”
    March 8, 2013.

    “Taharee JacksonHuman potential is in every human. In every place. In every corner of the world. Brilliance is sprinkled evenly across all races, places, and spaces. If we believe that, then there is nothing to fear when we consider demographic shifts, the transnational migration of people of color all over the globe, and here at home—the “Browning” of America.

    I like to think I’m not the only person in the United States who is unconcerned (rather excited, actually) about the growing number of people of color—specifically Latina/os—who are becoming a greater part of our society. The birth rate for children of color has already surpassed that of whites, and agencies from the U.S. Census Bureau, to the Department of Commerce, to the Pew Research Center project the equalization of so-called (but not for long) “minorities” and whites as early as 2042. These shifts are a blessing, I say. Not a bane. But not everyone agrees.

    Whenever I watch TV, I encounter no shortage of “heterogeny haters,” whose reaction to the changing face of the U.S. voter turnout in the 2012 Presidential election, and the future of a country in which whites will become the numerical minority in a matter of decades is fearful, loathsome, and downright scary.

    Fox News and conservative news media provide some of the most virulent commentaries, with characters like Bill O’Reilly pining for a more “traditional America,” as a “Brownout doomsday” looms large. Their pleas to recognize, and in some ways disrupt this trend is tantamount to first proclaiming that the sky is falling, and then lamenting its inevitability. Like Adele, I say “Let the sky fall.”

    As a seasoned diversity and inclusion consultant, I understand their sentiments. Brown people are coming. White people are becoming “extinct,” or at least facing an upturning of their numerical majority status. The fear is real because the trend is real. We already have a half-Black President who represents our country on a world stage. And the times? They are a-changin’.

    Our notions of who is in power, who dominates the U.S. population, and what that means for a democracy designed to uphold “one man, one vote” are, and must be challenged. And that scares the pants off people. Especially white people who are accustomed to racial dominance in nearly every sphere—culturally, aesthetically, curricularly, financially, politically, and,…in too many ways…globally.

    But there is another way. The Browning of America is nothing to fear. In fact, we should greet it with open arms. When citizenship, healthcare, education, and opportunity are expanded to more people—irrespective of their skin color—we grant ourselves not just the chance to grow as a nation, but to progress as humans. We don’t know who will invent the cure to cancer, or successfully destroy the latest asteroid to threaten Earth or invent the next technology that will revolutionize our lives. But one thing is certain. We will never know if we cling to nationalistic ideals of who belongs where, who is “American,” and who should be contained in powerless places.

    These are manifested, by the way, in immigration laws which have long kept people of color out of the U.S. in greater proportions than their white counterparts. Rather, if we came to see every person, in every corner of the world, as a walking bag of assets with the potential to optimize human flourishing, we would invest in their lives and futures as though ours depended upon it. Because it does. It always has.

    Now is the time to expand citizenship rights and educational opportunities to all people in our country, as well as the very notion of citizenship to include a more cosmopolitan, “global citizen,” member-of-the-human-race concept. This is where we will unlock the potential of all people, and in turn, advance our country and ourselves in ways we never thought possible. Or at least in ways that some are resisting and being dragged toward kicking and screaming. The Browning of America is a good thing. For all people. Even white people. Because everyone benefits when we advance. As people.”
    ———————————————————————————-
    Taharee Jackson is a professor at the Center for Urban Education at the University of the District of Columbia, which prepares teachers for the nation’s most under-supported public schools. In addition to designing multiple programs at the Center, she also conducts diversity, inclusion, and equity training sessions for a variety of professionals. When not teaching, she enjoys traveling and jogging in the sun.

  • Ron Saywack  On May 2, 2018 at 4:24 pm

    Cricket was first introduced to the West Indies in the late 1700s. And it was reserved exclusively for the planter class, a hegemonic expression of British self-imposed superiority and cultural predilection.

    In Barbados, in the post-slavery era, the planters would dress in whites every Sunday afternoon to play club cricket. Blacks were only allowed to be spectators and retrievers of the ball when it was struck high and far outside the boundaries.

    There was a prevailing view in the Massa elites that Blacks were inferior to Whites and that they were not capable of playing the so-called ‘gentleman’s’ sport. Sad but true!

    Until one day when one of the teams was missing a couple of players. Instead of playing short, they reluctantly asked a couple of the ball retrievers to don whites. That foot in the door was significant. That Sunday afternoon, the two ‘made-up’ players demonstrated remarkable bowling, batting and fielding skills, as well as athleticism, so much so that the team they represented resoundingly trounced the other team.

    It was then that the planters realized that the Black players were not inferior at all. And thus it was the birth of West Indies cricket. Black players were regularly included in the West Indies team. But the apartheid continued until the late 1950s. Even though the Black players were far superior for the most part, the arrogant, hegemonic view in the planter class dictated that they were not good enough to captain the team.

    That all significantly changed in 1960 when Frank Worrell (later Sir Frank Worrell) was appointed captain of the West Indies tour of Australi in 1960/61. Some of you may recall that series. It was noted for the first ‘tied Test’ in history at the Babba, in Brisbane.

    Wes Hall was the bowler and Ian Meckiff and Wally Grout were the batsmen to face the final over of the match.

    Meckiff was brilliantly run out, attempting a third run, by Conran Hunte who picked the ball up deep inside the fence and thew it right over the stumps.

    {Back then, Australia played the 8-ball over.}

    Lindsay Kline was the new batsman in to face the penultimate (or 7th) ball. The scores were level with Australia on 232/9, with one run needed for victory. Kline pushed the ball to square leg and immediately set off for the winning run.

    But Joe Solomon quickly pounced on it and, with one stump to aim at from about 40 feet away, rifled the ball in to hit the stumps, running Meckiff out by several inches.

    West Indies cricket thereafter began its ascendancy where they would dominate the cricket world for the next quarter century until their current precipitous decline.

  • Ron Saywack  On May 2, 2018 at 7:00 pm

    Correction:

    In the sixth para, the third line, it is the Gabba. Cheers.

  • Ron Saywack  On May 3, 2018 at 2:37 pm

    For the record: Timeline of West Indies Test Cricket:

    West Indies became the fourth Test-playing nation in 1928, joining Australia (1887), England (1887), and South Africa (1889). Their first Test was played at Lord’s on 23-26 June. West Indies suffered a heavy defeat, losing by an innings and 58 runs.

    Their first Test at home was begun on 11 January 1930 at the Kensington Oval in Barbados. West Indies fared better on this occasion as the match ended in a draw.

    New Zealand became the fifth Test-playing nation in 1930, India joined in 1932, Pakistan 1957, Sri Lanka 1982, Zimbabwe 1992, Bangladesh 2000, and Ireland to play their first Test at home next Friday (11 May) against Pakistan, and Afghanistan will debut against India in on 14 June at Bangalore, India.

    Ron.

  • Ron Saywack  On May 4, 2018 at 12:54 pm

    CRICKET HISTORY: WEST INDIES

    In the early days of West Indies tours to England, victory on English soil was elusive. England routinely had their way with the visitors.

    But the West Indians knew it was only a matter of time before that elusive victory came. And it finally happened where it all began in 1928: at Lord’s in 1950.

    Lord Beginner (Egbert Moore) explains:

  • guyaneseonline  On June 10, 2018 at 9:16 pm

    WHO IS THE COMMUNIST NOW!
    By Norman Datt

    The West criticized the Eastern block
    Forcing the Cold War which was never col’
    When they were guiltier about full control
    Then they did the same under Capitalism
    And the rift became wider under their ism
    Between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat
    And polytricks which’d blew anyone’s gasket
    Masquerading under markets and yearly tut-tut
    Leaving many with a very bad feeling in the gut
    They hijacked Fidel’s Cuba the bad communist
    Then their President put him on his friendly list
    They told the people trade your ism for democracy
    Behave or you’d be smothered you either change
    Or they treat you like like a mad dog with mange
    One time writer and friend of JFK aided in the blaze
    Arthur Schlesinger in his book “A Thousand Days”
    Admitted the plot to overthrow Dr Cheddi Jagan of Guyana
    The first Prime Minister of Guyana in far off South America
    The USA subverted Dr Jagan becoming the leader so dastard
    Aided, abetted by the CIA they sent Guyana very backward
    A. Schlesinger admitted Jagan was not a communist
    They replaced him with an Machiavellian opportunist
    If he was a communist it’s hard to see how his Guyana could Have become a threat to any one in North and South America
    You couldn’t stay quiet sit on the fence
    Those who didn’t bear the consequence
    Uncle Sam was active in all and never miss
    The USA was all business during every crisis
    During the Bolshevik revolution in 1917
    USA sent grains pretending to come clean
    And staved off millions from dying in Europe
    And left the communist holding on to the rope
    Then came Hitler the great German defender
    And again the USA was the great pretender
    Selling $11M munitions for Hitler’s build-up
    As he flourished occupying all of Europe

    Here is the whole STORY

    The story begins in 1953, when British Guiana, an English-speaking colony peopled by the descendants of slaves and laborers from Africa and India, elected its first native-born Prime Minister: Cheddi Jagan, a son of the colonial plantations, an American-educated dentist and an admirer of the works of Karl Marx.
    Four months later, Churchill suspended British Guiana’s Constitution and ordered its Government dissolved. Dr. Jagan was too leftist for Churchill’s taste, though the people of British Guiana liked him.
    Dr. Jagan and his wife, the former Janet Rosenberg of Chicago, were freed from jail after the British restored constitutional government, and he was re-elected in 1957 and 1961.
    The latter year saw Kennedy’s disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion, aimed at overthrowing Cuba’s leader, Fidel Castro. A newspaper cartoon of the day depicted a double-barrel shotgun aimed at the United States. One barrel was labeled “Cuba,” the other “British Guiana.”
    On Oct. 25, 1961, Prime Minister Jagan went to the White House, seeking financial aid and offering assurances.
    “I went to see President Kennedy to seek the help of the United States, and to seek his support for our independence from the British,” he said in a recent interview. “He was very charming and jovial. Now, the United States feared that I would give Guyana to the Russians. I said if this is your fear, fear not. We will not have a Soviet base. I raised the question of aid. They did not give a positive response. The meeting ended on this note.”
    The meeting was recorded by the historian Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. in “A Thousand Days,” his memoir of the Kennedy White House. “Jagan was unquestionably some sort of a Marxist,” he wrote, but also “plainly the most popular leader in British Guiana,” adding, “The question was whether he was recoverable for democracy.” Another question was whether he and his nation of 600,000 represented a threat to the United States.
    Kennedy told Dr. Jagan that United States policy toward his country was clear: “National independence. This is the basic thing. As long as you do that, we don’t care whether you are socialist, capitalist, pragmatist or whatever. We regard ourselves as pragmatists.” A joint statement was issued, committing Dr. Jagan “to uphold the political freedoms” that were his inheritance.
    After Dr. Jagan left Washington, Kennedy met in secret with his top national security officers. A pragmatic plan took shape.
    Still-classified documents depict in unusual detail a direct order from the President to unseat Dr. Jagan, say Government officials familiar with the secret papers.
    Though many Presidents have ordered the C.I.A. to undermine foreign leaders, they say, the Jagan papers are a rare smoking gun: a clear written record, without veiled words or plausible denials, of a President’s command to depose a Prime Minister.
    In short order, things started going badly for British Guiana.
    “It was after the meeting with Kennedy that the cold war heated up here,” recalled Janet Jagan, then a minister in her husband’s Government.
    Previously unheard-of radio stations went on the air in the capital, Georgetown. The papers printed false stories about approaching Cuban warships. Civil servants walked out. The labor unions revolted. Riots took the lives of more than 100 people. The key was the unions, whose rebellion crippled the Government and the economy. And the unions were taking advice and money from an interesting assortment of American organizations. Among them, say the Jagans and historians familiar with the events, was the American Institute for Free Labor Development, headed by a labor official named William C. Doherty Jr.
    The institute, an international program run by the A.F.L.-C.I.O., long has aided anti-Communist unions abroad. In the 1950’s and early 1960’s, former United States intelligence officers say, the C.I.A. slipped money to the institute. The ties between the agency and the institute have long since been severed.
    The agitation grew throughout 1962 and 1963. “A fire was set in the center of town,” Dr. Jagan said. “The wind fanned the flames, and the center of the city burned. There are still scars. Then they changed their tactics. This is where the C.I.A. support came in full. They imposed a full blockade on shipping and airlines. We were helpless. We had no power.”
    The British, at the suggestion of the Kennedy Administration, delayed their colony’s scheduled independence and changed its electoral system in October 1963. Now the electorate had to vote for parties instead of people, and a still popular but politically weakened Dr. Jagan fell from power. Once he fell, the British granted independence to the new republic of Guyana.
    For the next 20 years the country was governed by Forbes Burnham — “as the British described him, an opportunist, racist and demagogue intent only on personal power,” to quote from “A Thousand Days.” He held power through force and fraud until his death in 1985.
    He ran up a foreign debt of more than $2 billion, a sum more than five times Guyana’s gross domestic product. Interest on that debt now consumes 80 percent of the country’s revenue and more than half of its foreign earnings.
    “They made a mistake putting Burnham in,” Janet Jagan said. “The regrettable part is that the country went backwards.” One of the better-off countries in the region 30 years ago, Guyana today is among the poorest. Its principal export is people.
    In 1992, in the country’s first free elections in three decades, Dr. Jagan was elected President. In June of this year, unaware of the still-classified Kennedy-Jagan documents, the Clinton Administration prepared to nominate a new Ambassador to Guyana: William C. Doherty Jr., executive director of the American Institute for Free Labor Development.
    “I was flabbergasted,” President Jagan said. “We let it be known that we were not happy.” His unhappiness derailed plans to nominate Mr. Doherty, who has declined several requests for an interview.
    Dr. Jagan said the documents about the plot against him should be published, and he laughed at the idea that they might anger him or embarrass the United States.
    “Everybody in Guyana knows what happened,” he said. “I don’t understand why they should be kept secret. I’m not going to use these documents to blackmail the United States. Maybe President Clinton doesn’t know our history, but the people who advise him should at least know their own history.”
    The law demands the declassification of Government papers after 30 years, unless they compromise national security secrets. Dozens of Kennedy Administration documents on British Guiana remain locked away, and the State Department and the C.I.A. say they should stay that way.
    Another volume dealing with Japan is in limbo, because it details the Kennedy Administration’s secret support for Japanese conservatives, Government officials said. If either set is blocked, it would a first. No full volume of the State Department’s foreign policy documents has ever been withheld because of Government secrecy.
    Mr. Schlesinger, whose “Thousand Days” offers the best-known account of the Kennedy-Jagan encounter — an account that he now acknowledges is incomplete — said the documents should be released, so history can be revised.
    “We misunderstood the whole struggle down there,” Mr. Schlesinger said. “He wasn’t a Communist. The British thought we were overreacting, and indeed we were. The C.I.A. decided this was some great menace, and they got the bit between their teeth. But even if British Guiana had gone Communist, it’s hard to see how it would be a threat.”
    The full story, he said, proved the truth of Oscar Wilde’s witticism: “The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it.”

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

w

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: